Honda Africa, Senzor za rezervu goriva, modeli 1988-1993

[lalajko 2027 Napisano April 14, 2008]

Na Afrikama RD03 i RD04 postoje dva senzora za rezervu goriva. Jedan pali svoju sijalicu na oko 8 litara, drugi pali svoju na oko 4. meni ovaj prvi nije radio kad sam kupio motor, a i ovaj drugi je nedavno otkazao poslusnost. U razgovoru sa kolegama afrikancima sam primetio da nema ni jednog kome rade oba senzora, obicno se kvar jednog tolerise. Moguce da je to zbog cene od 85e napolju, plus provizija donosioca. Uglavnom, vec par puta ostadoh bez goriva, na nezgodnim mestima i u nezgodno vreme...

 

Rasklopljen, senzor izgleda ovako:

 

 

Ova cevcica je zaletovana za taj veliki zavrtanj koji se zavija u rezervoar. Ne znam kako ovo radi, neki elektronicar ce to znato bolje od mene. Postoji li neko ko ovo moze da popravi ili izmeni tako da radi? Verujem da bi imao posla, jer kazem, nikom ovde ne rade oba senzora.

 

Da pokusamo da nadjemo resenje...

[zekazmaj 16 Napisano April 14, 2008]

Kao sto je pomenuto o tome koliko rade...

Eto ni meni ne radi jedan.

Ja sam isto veoma zainteresovan za resenje.

[dzax 35 Napisano April 14, 2008]

Ajde slikaj malo blize te delove iz raznih uglova..

Da izvalim na kom principu radi.

Mozda mogu da pomognem,ali ne obecavam! Verovatno ne kostaju 85e radi fore...

[lalajko 2027 Napisano April 16, 2008]

Nemam vise slika, to je to. Jenom prilkom sam nasao clanak o senzoru, ali na italijanskom. Probacu da ga iskopam pa da okacim ovde. U medjuvremnenu, postoji li neki dobar forum koji se bavi elektronikom, ovde u Srbiji, pa da pitamo tamo?

 

EDIT:

 

Nasao sam nesto. Joska, ovde ima i nekakvih sema, mozes li da prokljuvis o cemu se radi?

 

http://www.qsl.net/iz7ath/moto/sonda/index.htm

 

Takodje, lepa tema o senzoru goriva na ADVRideru:

 

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211798

 

I na "nasem" forumu postoji nesto:

 

http://www.xrv.org.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=16938&highlight=fuel+sensor

 

 

[lalajko 2027 Napisano April 16, 2008]

Na http://www.africanqueens.de/ sajtu (proizvodjac dodatne opreme za enduro motocikle) moze da se kupi alternativni kit senzora za gorivo:

 

Evo linka.

 

 

[lalajko 2027 Napisano April 16, 2008]

E sad, saznao sam jednu caku:

 

Posto na RD03 i RD04 postoje dve slavine za gorivo, na dnu svakog dzepa rezervoara, dovoljno je otvoriti samo levu, a desnu ostaviti zatvorenu. I sa jednom otvorenom slavinom se dobija dovoljan protok goriva, a u slucaju da se motor usled nedostatka ugasi, otvorite i slavinu iz desnog dzepa i nastavite put do pumpe.

 

[Joseph B. 142 Napisano April 16, 2008]

Ovo teoretski  nije ni tako komplikovano popraviti ( link na italijanskom , tamo je lepo objasnjeno kako radi ) samo treba kupiti NTC otpornik i relej. 

[lalajko 2027 Napisano April 16, 2008]

Ovo teoretski  nije ni tako komplikovano popraviti ( link na italijanskom , tamo je lepo objasnjeno kako radi ) samo treba kupiti NTC otpornik i relej. 

 

Ja znam samo dve italijanske reci: Ferari i Dukati. Sto ce reci, treba nam prevod za clanak.

[lalajko 2027 Napisano April 16, 2008]

Evo sta sam napravio pomocu italian -> English prevodioca:

 

HONDA TWIN 750 AFRICA: PROBE OF FUEL LEVEL

 

The Honda Africa Twin 750 model and RD04 'equipped with two probes fuel level indicating respectively reserve Lt. 8.5 (light orange) and 4.3 Lt. (red);

A great comfort ', pity that they almost always stop working without warning;

Almost always' the light orange to break for first and why and 'technically explicable;

 

THE OPERATION

 

The operation and 'the following:

Probes are nothing more than thermo elements, ie 'resistance NTC changing their value according to the temperature; these are normally crossed by current that causes their heating; when they are immersed in liquid (fuel) are cooled while maintaining a high resistance ; when the fuel level decreases, their temperature increases by sharply reduce their resistance.

 

Looking at the diagram of AT you notice that the battery voltage passes through the light and reaches its probe close to ground;

Until the probe and 'dipped in petrol, its resistance and' high consequence of a current flows so 'modest as not to turn the bulb;

But when 'petrol is missing, the probe decreases its resistance ohmica by the relative light switch;

In parallel to the probe's' circuit FIC, which works in practice only for a few seconds when the switch framework by the two spies (in practice must be a small rele 'timer terminating to ground).

 

THE PROBLEM

 

But because 'burn as' easily?

Simple, who has a habit of walking always in reserve, not only continually stress that the probe heats up to a lot of damage (in addition to the fact that they are mechanically sensitive).

Sometimes it can 'be a voltage regulator damaged their cause premature death because with higher voltage, circulates a more' high current that warms more '(sometimes even with the full tank).

Other times the problem and 'only bad welding: in these cases just to get re-running probe.

 

The cost of a single probe, a Honda dealer (June 03) and 'approximately 65 euros, a figure enormous compared to what the probe applies in reality' (but certainly not solve the underlying problem);

 

By dismantling the damaged probe to study the problem and 'this and' formed by a brass cap with 18 thread diameter 1.5 mm with a pitch, with two faston headed by one side and the probe itself on the other;

Everything and 'made in solidarity with epoxy resin;

An O-ring ensures the leak but not here.

 

THE SOLUTION

 

So I began to do some testing and those following are results.

The bulb in the probe set (ie 'LED on the dashboard) and' by 3W, which means we have less than 200 mA for "heat" l 'NTC;

With this small current, putting power of NTC (for greater security), you need much more 'time to be able to heat the probe, making a somewhat' "late" readings;

In the end I opted for small NTC from 1 / 2 w 470 Ohm;

Initially, I used to bolt a NTC (better to have the NTC physically separated from petrol, if ....); explode in this way and 'increased the maximum dissipation but also the time of "activation" in practice since where there 'more' liquid on the probe, spend ten minutes before it is warm to the right point;

 

 

To remedy this, I had to turn a small piece of aluminium from very thin walls (closed above), built from a rod full of aluminium, in order to have the NTC not directly in contact with gasoline and at the same time a good time response to temperature changes.

 

 

I then placed on one of the two terminals of a Teflon sheath to prevent short circuit with the walls of the container

 

 

The NTC and 'made in solidarity with this through thermosetting polyester resin and welded on the original probe.

Here I cut behind the two metal wings that support the probe itself, then I made two holes by 1mm in these holes I slipped and welded terminals of the new probe.

The perfectionists may vary the height of the same probe on a few millimeters to get a reading similar to the original.

 

Well, the probe and 'restored, the price of 1 euro, but' we can 'improve the situation;

I said that the thermal stress (NTC with the resin does not have more 'worry that mechanical) cause of premature death; how to fix it? Easy, making sure that after having given notice of the lack fuel, the probe is excluded;

Possible solutions are many, the best is to put in parallel to a probe rele

 

 

 

As the probe heats up the tension to the heads coil rele 'sale until it is activated, its contacts close by-passing the probe with a twofold effect: autoritenuta of rele' and the ' Excluding probe;

This change and 'good for me to be implemented on probes originals, and requires only a rele' + diode for probe (I added a second diode inversely polarized contacts between coil to dampen spikes switching);

Figure in the diode is used to isolate the FIC at start.

 

 

 

The price to be paid and 'greater critical' in the development, since the resistance of the coil rele 'affects the whole system.

However, having found rele 'suitable (for siemes with coil resistance of 170 ohms to 12 V, which in reality' is eccitano already 6V) have implemented this solution.;

I ended all encapsulated in a container rele 'car emptied of its contents and filled with resin-based fiber glass (Editor's note: mass = 85, 86 = probe, 87 = +12 V).

 

 

The alternative that I also realized in 'a small electronic circuit in practice a simple voltage comparator a window based on two LM311;

 

 

 

This "monitor" the voltage to the heads of bulb light, and when this comes down to around 5-6 volts (ie 'petrol not more wet' the NTC) activates a rele 'which excludes the probe by turning on the light bulb at the maximum voltage ( you noticed that, because of the design choices, lamps emit not spies ever maximum brightness' precisely because 'undernourished).

This solution, albeit somewhat 'more' complicated calibration makes more 'simple;

Moreover, 'can also use an NTC value most' high, so then you can 'calibrate the window to trigger the rele' the tension.

(NOTE = circuit, although 'running is not' been tested because I have worked with the solution rele '

In parallel, for example, must be isolated from FIC).

 

The probe now works perfectly, since it is lacking petrol spend more than a couple of minutes before the light turns on completely (in these minutes pero 'LED begins to light);

The only possible disadvantage and 'that "reset" the circuit have to remove food, but this is not' a problem because ', stopping to gasoline, it is by itself.

The cost should wandering on a euro.

 

OTHER SOLUTIONS

 

An idea for the most 'enterprising: mounted on each attack threaded probes, two NTC at different elevations for a total of 3 or 4 probes, then replace each bulb with a bicolour LED;

In this way there would be a chance ', for example, have an indication for 4 - 8 - 12 - 16 lt of fuel remaining.

Other ideas, which at present remains only these:

Use a resistance crossed from the current "scaldiglia" with a switch next heat (or NTC): the operation of the original invoice only more 'complicated but more' robust.

On the network and 'a change also available that uses optical elements, and that should resolve the problem.

Again: intermittent light bulbs (such as Christmas) have a similar function;

Finally two astine conductor material (steel) that if immersed in a liquid close circuit (in reality 'should come to terms with the conductivity' of petrol, the most you can 'use a capacitive type system or a functioning RF).

[aca-pn 6451 Napisano April 16, 2008]

U kolika komplikacija zbog jedne lampice Zar nije jednostavnije napuniti rezervoar, resetovati kilometrazu i ponovo napuniti posle predjenih 250 km ? Ja tako radim i NIKAD nisam ostao bez goriva ni na autu (plin bez meraca u kabini) ni na motoru.

[lalajko 2027 Napisano April 16, 2008]

Ja jednostavno hocu da mi na motoru radi sve kako treba. Iz razgovora sa ostalim Afrikancima, znam da ni njima ne rade senzori, vecini cak ni jedna. Ispravnost ovog senzora bi vecini vlasnika donela novi kvalitet voznje i ne vidim sta je problem da se dodje do jeftinijeg resenja od novog fabrickog senzora. Mala opaska, pre nego se pritisne dugme POSALJI treba se zapitati da li poruka nosi korisnu informaciju za temu koja se obradjuje.

[aca-pn 6451 Napisano April 16, 2008]

Ovo je bilo pitanje cisto zbog radoznalosti sto bi neko trosio toliku energiju  i vreme na takvu sitnicu bez koje se moze bez problema. A poruka nosi korisne informacije za one kojima ne radi senzor, a nemaju toliko slobodnog vremena i svoju energiju trose na znacajnije stvari u zivotu.

 

Evo, necu vise

[joska 63 Napisano April 17, 2008]

Imam ideju za resenje,samo da sastavim sklop koji sam smislio,i vidim kojih ntc/ptc otpornika ima u ponudi kod nas.Jedno je sigurno,a to je da nece biti nikakvog releja u sklopu.Treba mi par dana da ideju sprovedem u delo,pa cu javiti rezultate.

Pozdrav!